Subject: start problem

 Hi Hans
 I am hoping for some advice on my bike.
 Had some problems with MR Max from the beginning. The starter motor turns but not the engine, accompanied by the sound of a tin bucket of bolts being shaken.
I have now installed a new battery, cleaned the water and rust out of the fuel tank, stripped and cleaned carbs, cleaned all electrical connections, stripped and checked the starter motor, opened the starter clutch.
 Here things started getting interesting, the gears that go between the
 starter splines and the driven gear were incorrectly assembled, in other words they were put in in the wrong order. Just the friction of the gears running next to each other was starting the bike, sometimes.
 So it had seemed like I had it licked, it started perfectly for a
 while. However it has started to do the same thing, not start, starter spins but wont turn engine.
 So back to pulling things apart, first checked the starter motor, all in order there. Opened starter clutch again(keeping in mind that I have not pulled the alternator out).Everything looked all right, but on closer inspection found that the driven gear can move backwards and forwards about half a centimetre, it appears as if when under load it slips past the gear that drives it, is this possible?

REPLY #1

----- Original Message -----

From: billy.owen@murrob.com

To: j.nell@ru.ac.za

Cc: mail@awol.co.za

Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:51 PM

Jan,
The drive gear cannot move that amount of play let me explain I had the same fault on my V Max you need to take the cover off completely then you will see you got three gears one is on the starter motor the other one is the idling gear and then you got your main gear. What happened with mine the starter clutch start to came loose on the flywheel it is hold down with three allen cap screws at the back of the flywheel (caught it in time otherwise it would have damage the crank case so take note) but you need to remove the flywheel, you need to loosen the crank bolt and then have a puller made that you can remove the flywheel because it is on a taper shaft and there is a key as well watch out not to lose the key. If you have taken it off check the clutch you got three rollers and springs they usually get worn, this is when the starter start doing what you have said, I have ordered a starter clutch and a new main gear assembled and torque everything again and wow it sounds again like a bike no more horrible sounds or when you have stopped and want to start you cannot and believe me the max is a bit heavy to push start. The cost was about R1400-00 and I need to wait three weeks for them to import it for me.
Yours in Safety and Health
Billy Owen

REPLY #2
 ----- Original Message -----

From: JJ and Mariana

To: Hans

Cc: j.nell@ru.ac.za

Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:09 PM

Subject: Starter problems

Hans,

Last year, whilst returning from the rally, we (me and Willem) filled up at Standerton, for the last time. My Max battled to start (also with this tinny noise), but was okay when getting home. It was then okay for another week, and then collapsed. Starter motor running, but no engagement.

I removed the alternator cover as I found some weird pieces of metal at the bottom of the cover. I removed the alternator “flywheel”. Behind that are 3 capscrew that hold the starter clutch assy in place. These capscrew came out, the housing came apart and was ripped the apart in the gears. Luckily for you, that haven’t happened yet. As soon as the starter motor cranks the clutch, is forces the 3 rollers to clamp the crankshaft and turns the motor. In your case, the movement of the clutch are caused by the loose capscrews.

I purchase a new assembly and apply Loctite to the capscrew’s threads on assembly.

Make urgent work of it!!!

Regards

JJ

REPLY #3
 From:   Murchie, Ian (P) 
Sent:   10 July 2008 16:59
To:     'j.nell@ru.ac.za'
Subject:        starter

hi there
  My name is Ian and I had the same problem that you are experiencing. I found after stripping mine for the 3rd time that the springs pushing out the little cup gets weak and the cup goes to far up the hole and sometimes sticks. I got hold of the Yamaha suppliers in Durban and bought the kit. This comprises of the 4 rollers ,4 springs and 4 cups, this did the trick at a cost of R196 for the lot. My cover the one that sits over the whole clutch housing was loose so I drilled 3 small holes and tapped them to keep this in place If this shifts then it is possible that the rollers my fall out. What ever you do change those 3 components first as to ride it like that will cause serious damage, was very lucky I did it when I did.And yes its a bitch to get the bloody flywheel of , on my last attemp the thing nearly went through the wall.You can phone me on 082-8076132 if you need to ask any questions.

Cheers
Ian

JAN SAYS.........

01

----- Original Message -----

FROM: Jan Nell

To: billy.owen@murrob.com

Cc: 'Hans Knop Bamminger'

Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:51 PM

Subject: RE:

Hi Billy

Thanks for the response,I pulled the alternator rotor,and sure enough ,the whole clutch assembly was loose.By the look of those three bolts I would say I bought the bike with that loose!.After replacing the 3 allen cap screws, locktighting them in place,I re-assembled.Unfortunately everything is so worn that the driven gear is not locking up.My parts have been ordered(R1049-55),and its going to be a long 3 to 4 week wait since there aren’t any in the country!

I hope that there is no other damage to the engine,I guess I will find out one way or the other !

Thanks again

Jan Nell

02
----- Original Message -----

FROM: Jan Nell

To: Ian.Murchie@za.nampak.com

Cc: 'Hans Knop Bamminger'

Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:51 PM

Subject: RE: starter

Hi Ian

Thanks for the e-mail.I did finally pull that alternator rotor,and yes,it came off with a crack that left me shaking!

The entire clutch assembly was loose,the 3 allen head bolts were so chewed up that it’s a miracle that it ever started! I have ordered an entirely new clutch sub assembly and driven gear from X-treme Yamaha in PE .(R1049-55)So now its patience until parts come from Nippon. JHB is out of stock!

MAXIMUM thanks

Jan Nell

03
----- Original Message -----

FROM: Jan Nell

To: 'JJ & Mariana'

Cc: 'Hans Knop Bamminger'

Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:51 PM

Subject: RE: Starter problems

Hi JJ

Those cap screws were loose,and nicely chewed up! Unfortunately I got the bike with everything ratting around in there and did not know any better.The new gear and clutch sub assembly are on order,and hopefully that will be that!

Thanks for the advice

Jan Nell

 
 
STARTER MOTOR. Most Vmaxers have found a problem with lazy starting, particularly when the engine is hot. Many feel it is the battery and/or charging system that is the culprit. .My Vmax has always had a lazy start when hot even though I have the newest voltage regulator and good battery. Recently the bike started struggling to start and within a week the starter failed entirely. My first thought was the battery and charging system was at fault however this was not so. I have been avoiding the prospect of removing and servicing the starter for years and when it failed entirely I had no choice. When I opened up the starter it contained 20 years of accumulated rust and a heap of black carbon powder from the worn and totally stuck brushes. Everything metal was coated in an orange layer of dust as is evident from the attached pics. After a good clean up, new brushes, o rings and bearing, the engine fires up strong and no more lazy starting when the engine is hot.
Carl Talbot
dec 2007